chopin etudes

[Lopyt]

All you said was bad things abput pop music and told me I cannot deny classical greatness hahaha. The reasons you gave as to why pop was bad were completely subjective, and you were criticising most pop music for the features most of the songs share as a genre.

I agree jazz elitism is a problem, same with metal elitists. Elitism sucks and every genre seems to have some form of it or another. Just classical elitism has the support of educational facilities so it has a bigger impact

[emekat]

If you can't/won't bother reading all or any of my points than I'm wasting my time talking to a brick wall.

[Lopyt]

I responded to your points. They are subjective and focus on pop music having little volume dynamic and a lot of compression, autotune, lack of complicated note patterns, chord progs, etc. Those are completely up to taste whether they sounf good or bad. I like music with both,I think thry can enhance music or makr it worse depending on the song, and most pop songs it works well on. Pop would sound weird snd probably not the best if you threw a bunch of jazz chords at it and fsst piano solos because thats not what its trying to be. You seem to be the one refusing to recognize that music dynamic is conveyed in other ways now to me. :/

[Xlikeseek]

the hell's happening here

[Benvisions]

the hell's happening here

IDK

[Lopyt]

the hell's happening here

Musical debate, share your thoughts on the matter too

[Marysamat]

I like classical music. I feel like it can touch you in a certain way that I just like. I feel like the slower classical pieces can be calm but also moody and have so many emotions in them. I think classical is more creative to a degree. Also, the people who the pieces had a tone of talent in them! Check out la campanella!

[Legendary_.]

"NOTHING special?  Not deep?  You're not listening.  I understand that classical can be difficult to listen to because it is often quite abstract (certainly when compared to modern simple pop)."

Tell me what makes it any better??

"And you just spent nearly an hour in chat today waving away ALL of my arguments about pop music, simply dismissing them as matter of taste.  I have already stated above that classical is not my fave go to listening choice, far from it, but I do appreciate the depth and intricacies of it and the high level of composition and structure in it which far outweighs pretty much anything in our billboard hot 100 in the last 20 years.  I can admire it on its merits DESPITE my tastes."

Again modern music is much more deep because its about the sound, ratger than just the notes.

"No mixing in classical????  Are you nuts?  There's a 57 piece orchestra, each piece often with its own charts.  Arrangements galore, all playing dynamically.  Comparing dynamics between classical and modern pop is laughable.  Dynamics are rampant in classical, pretty much non-existent in today's pop.  Today we crush the headroom out of everything.  And dynamics is the FIRST and most important basic building block of mixing often overlooked, which parts are quieter and which parts are louder, that was how mixing was born with simple mic placement.  Classical composers didn't have that but they still mixed.  What do you think all the p<f 's were on the charts?  That's mixing.  Yes they didn't have multitracks and effects, but they had acoustics and dynamics, which means that they actually still got the job done WITH LESS!  Mixing a 57 piece orchestra with nothing but pen and paper is an order of magnitude harder than a drum beat a bassline, a guitar or two, some vocals and some effects, yet they still did it 400 years ago masterfully."

And yet most of the instruments blend together because its heavy on the reverb and no mixing. Modern music has different kinds of dynamics than just volume, when you think about modern music with a classical perspective it falls apart because ITS NOT CLASSICAL. Mixing is about making instruments more clear, something classical really doesn't do well. There are many more layers of synths and guitars in recordings than you think, everything is carefully placed exactly where it should be in the song, and in the sound. Its actually quite impressive how they get it all to work. Headroom was crushed out of stuff sometimes in that loudness war thing, and it is pretty noticable om some albums, like Death Magnetic, but I think music is beyond the point where loudness dynamics give a song their structure. The truth is that we have more ways of accomplishing the same goals, classical was really limited and their ways of accomplishing dynamics were also limited,but these days we can use much more and that reall helps boost the creativity of music. Music is a creative art,not a science. It doesn't need to be defined by a very specific set of rules, like classical music theory. We are beyond the point that is relevant. Think about death metal, think about techno, think about rap. Most of those songs don't even have melody or harmony, instead focusing on rhythmic and timbral dynamics to convey chamge in the song. Pop uses all three. Think of the REASON why they used tempo changes and volume changes back then, npt what they did but why they did it .

"You can't seriously argue that Bieber with his chopped up vocal over a looped beat and two chords for three and a half minutes is deeper than Beethoven.  Cardi B is worse, she doesn't even have chords in half of her stuff just a 3 note bassline."

I most certainly can. You can say bad things about any style of music, and I'll do it to all genres if you want me to. That criticism usually is HEAVILY biased by our taste though. The genre isn't what makes songs bad. Chopped vocals aren't really a problem since music is recorded these days, not preformed as much. The goal is to make it sound as good as possible, so chopping a few vocal takes doesn't really mean anything, just makes production take less time. A lot of classical recordings are chopped up as hell too, especially old piano ones, where there can be more than 500 takes per song. Chords aren't necessary either, look at every metal song ever,look at techno, look at dubstep, etc. We don't need chords anymore since we have more tools to achieve the same results that classical artists were trying to achieve.

"Not relevant? So many people on this site in particular love video game music.  There's tons of cool video game music out there, but what is the most famous and beloved video game music of all?  Tetris.  That's Tchaikovsky, so he's VERY relevant - directly relevant, even today."

Thats only because classical music lovers are elitists often, and while agree  that classical does have influence today, that is mostly because thats all the education system for music likes to teach for music classes. Sad isn't it? Yes some people do like classical today and I myself like a lot of it, but I think its history, outdated, not relevant due to the lack of technology and science about audio and waves and that kind of stuff.

"And finally Chopin may be about playing fast on a piano, but he is only one composer.  He's the minority.  There's far far FAR more to classical than shred piano.  Listen to Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata, a beautiful piece of chordscape, a slow arpeggio with subtle changes and dramatic dynamics."

Moonlight Sonata sounds like the generic slow music they play in ads or TV shows because its really simple and sounds sad, and doesn't really get in the way of the show while conveying that this scene means sadness. You can do a lot more with sad though. I don't listen to a lot of rap, so I don't know many examples for that, but there is a pop song that goes like "once I was seven years old" or something that does sound very sad also, there are many metal songs that sound sad, an album I recommend is My Arms, Your Hearse. There are skrillex songs that sound sad. There are cpuntry songs that sound sad. You can use emotion in any genre really but you don't really need to.

I am not sayng classical music is too abstract for modern listeners at all. I would say that about metal and jazz more than I would say that about classical. I am saying that its very shallow for the lack of technical and scientifical advancement over hundreds of years that makes it very outdated and shallow compared to music of today. It is objectively worse than modern music because of that. There is less creativity. There is a religious mindset of the people.of the day. There are many factors to why it is worse, and thats ok. It would suck if after hundreds of years, our music hasn't gotten any better, but the truth is, it has gotten better!

You are just looking at one side of a very complex object that is music. Think outside the box of classical and see the world of music as it is! A complicated creative expression of art, that isn't limited to rules, but by technology.

I have a feeling music will eventually be written by algorithms, and thats fine by me, people are still going to put a lot of effort into getting those algorithms to make music they want, and it will be interesting and great.

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